Sunday, January 6, 2008

Spontaneous generation

“Students all over the world are taught the historical and scientific greatness of the disproof of spontaneous generation (life coming from nonliving matter). Redi, Pasteur, and Spallanzani proved that life can only come from preexisting life. Ideas such as mice coming from dirty undergarments were finally silenced. How ironic it is when these same educators turn right around and assert that spontaneous generation was the mechanism by which life arose! The modern concept of organic evolution, then, is actually nothing more than a refined regression to sixteenth-century scientific mentality, where spontaneous generation is again proposed.”

(Scott M. Huse, “The Collapse of Evolution,” p. 12)

8 comments:

human rorscach test said...

Discarding evolution incriminates our creator and is thus a blasphemy.

An all-powerful being is surely to blame when his creations do the things we have done. What would god's excuse for inaction be? Was he too tired to stop Hitler? Is he too sick to stop ruthless businessmen from using his name to control the masses? Is it in his will that priests molest young boys?

Is he dead or are we mistaken about what 'good' is?

Jeff said...

"Atheists have tried unsuccessfully to identify a mechanism by which the world could have made itself. 20th century science has proved with certainty that the world is not eternal -- the universe had a beginning. The only feasible option to explain the origin of the universe (space, time, matter, energy, natural law, etc.) is a Transcendent Creator. DNA is a compelling example of the incredible design that permeates all life - the digital code that organizes organic material into complex organisms. The invisible language convention that interprets the DNA code is another dramatic evidence for an Intelligent Designer. It is here that an atheist, confronted with the evidence against random evolutionary theory, attacks Special Creation on philosophical grounds. One of the primary questions atheists pose is, "If God is real, and God created everything, why did He create evil?"

"Look at the logic: How could God allow for Love without the potential for evil? God could have created robots that do nothing more than forever say, "I love you, I love you, I love you." But such creatures would be incapable of a real love relationship. The Bible says God desires a real love relationship with His creation: "My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth" (I John 3:18). Love is not real unless one has the ability to not love. If one were able to choose not to love God, but chose instead to love God, that would allow for a real love relationship with God. One of God's attributes is omniscience. God knew that in a world with choice, there would be much evil -- to choose not to love is evil by definition. However, there would also be the capacity for real love. Philosopher Alvin Plantinga writes, "An all loving, all powerful, all knowing Being could permit as much evil as He pleased without forfeiting His claim to being all loving, so long as for every evil state of affairs He permits there is an accompanying greater good" (God, Freedom and Evil). The potential for love out weighs the existence of evil, especially if evil can only exist for a time. Evil is a side effect of love. Suffering and death are a side effect of evil (Romans 5:12). God says in His Bible that this side effect is only for a time. Evil serves the limited purpose of establishing real love relationships between creation and the Creator, and evil will be done away with after that purpose is achieved. "And the world passes away, and the lust thereof: but he that does the will of God abides forever" (I John 2:17)."
http://www.allaboutgod.com/problem-of-evil.htm

human rorschach test said...

So your saying that God made evil, so that we would love him more?

You should always smash your things and hit your wife so that she will understand that doing as she's told means love, and anything else is unacceptable.

Until now this WAS my definition of evil.

Man's freedom of choice and ability to love is a means to torture us. It's all clear now. God is absolutely beyond our comprehension because the human mind can't generally conceive of such dark and depraved machinations. Well played, you've helped me find a new perspective on this. I despise GOd even more, and will probably think more of how much I hate it/him every time I find anything to be happy about because I know that love and joy are there to make the pain worse when it hits! Great religion you've got there!

Jeff said...

No, that quote is not saying that God created evil. It's saying that a loving relationship requires free choice, and with free choice necessarily comes the possibility of turning against the one who wants you to love them. If God forced us to obey Him on this earth, He would be comparable to a dictator or a puppet master.

Real love has to be a choice, and the reality is that 'choice' means there has to be at least two things to choose *from*. Tragically, man has chosen to turn against God and go his own way. But thankfully, God made a way for us to be rescued from Hell, if we will only turn to Him for that help.

That quote is also saying that God will not allow evil to go unpunished forever. If He excused all sin, He would not be just, and He would not be a very good God. He must punish sin.

It's incredible that the natural man will go to any lengths to avoid having to submit to a higher morality and a Higher Power. But its a losing battle. Its like when teenagers commit a crime and then try to run from the police, or even fight the police; its a losing battle.

Every one of us has lied, stolen, lusted, hated, gossiped, cursed, and a host of other things. Not just once, but thousands and thousands of times, year after year. Every one of us has broken God's Law, and every one of us deserves to burn in Hell forever. The only escape is through Christ Jesus. Nothing and no one else will save you.

God created you and gave you life. Jesus died for sin so that anyone who would accept Him would be cleansed and forgiven of their sins, and would have eternal life in Paradise. Yet so many refuse to surrender to Him. But its only to their own destruction that they do so. Instead, they try to fault the very God Who wants to save them...which is exactly what you are doing. You're refusing to take responsibility for your own actions, and are trying to throw the blame on God instead.

I pray that one day you will see how much Jesus loves you, and that you will turn to Him and repent of all your sins and follow Him as your Savior and your Lord, forevermore. If you truly do so, you will never have to see Hell.

human rorshach test said...

I take responsibility for my actions. I have lied, stolen, lusted, hated, gossiped, cursed, and a host of other things, but I have never punished anyone for not loving me.

I don't test people to see if they really mean it when they say they love me, especially by killing their sons, giving them lesions, and destroying their homes. (Job)

I never killed anyone for touching an object I gave them. (Uzziah)

I can say that I never sent someone to die in battle so that someone I liked better could steal the guys wife. I also don't demand that anyone kill their baby for me.

I haven't transfered a single 'sin' of mine to god. I am merely stating that if this god of yours needs moral counseling, I'm here to listen.

Whether or not he's real, I'll probably die for HIS sins.

Jeff said...

So, in effect, you're saying that God is a worse sinner than you are. You, a human being who does
not know all there is to know, after admitting that you have committed many wrong deeds, are
challenging a holy, perfect God regarding His morality. You don't realize how dangerous it is to blaspheme God like that.

God doesn't punish people merely for not loving Him; at least, not in the sense that we think of one human being getting angry at another human being because
that person doesn't love them.

First, God created us, so He has the right to do with us as He will.

Second, God's nature is love and holiness, so anything that acts against love (i.e., hate) or holiness (i.e., sin) is His direct opposite.

Third, sin is like a cancer; if it is allowed to spread and run free, it will affect and destroy everything. That's why God will get rid of it forever, by casting
all unrepentant sinners into Hell. However, He allows it to continue for now upon this earth, instead of destroying everyone right now, to give people a chance to repent and turn to Him. But one day He will end sin and evil completely by casting all evil into Hell.

Fourth, if you love something or someone, then you must hate anything that hurts that person or thing. Besides being an offense to God (because sin is the antithesis of His nature, and all that He is), sin destroys and
hurts people; so, if God loves people, then He hates that which hurts and destroys people. He hates sin so much that He crushed His only Son at the cross, in order that people would not have to go to Hell. Yet, for anyone who refuses to let go of that cancerous evil which destroys
all that it touches, and refuses God's merciful remedy for the problem, then God must cast that sin, along with the person who refuses to part with that sin, into Hell, because, as I said, God is going to get rid of evil
completely, by casting it into Hell forever.

Although its a limited and imperfect comparison, you might think of it a little bit like mutiny, on our part.

Now, a Captain is the one in authority over a ship, and God
has far more supremacy over us than some human Captain has over his crew, so that's why this is an imperfect comparison; but I think it helps, at least in a small way and to some degree, in explaining why God punishes sin.

According to Wikipedia, "Mutiny is the act of conspiracy among members of a group of similarly-situated individuals
(typically members of the military; or the crew of any ship,
even if they are civilians) to openly oppose, change or overthrow an existing authority and therefore, disobey the rule of law."
"Most countries still punish mutiny with particularly harsh
penalties, sometimes even the death penalty. Mutiny is typically
thought of only in a shipboard context, but many countries’ laws make no such distinction, and there have been notable mutinies on land."

If one human being rebelling in mutiny against the authority
of another human being can be punished by death, then how much
more so does God have the right to punish those who rebel against
His authority? God is far, far above any Captain. He is even
far above any President or King.

As far as your last two sentences, please beware, friend, because
God is no pushover, and He does not take such blasphemy lightly.
He will not let any sin go unpunished. So, if you never allow Jesus to pay for your sins, then you will be paying for them in Hell, and I believe there are different levels in Hell, so the more you blaspheme God now, the more you will likely be suffering then.

You said you take responsibility for your actions. Well, if you
end up in Hell, you will be taking full responsibility for every
single evil word, deed or thought that you ever said, did or had.
God will judge you, and you will be found guilty; and you will never finish paying for your sins.
However, I really do hope that you will repent some day, because
Hell is not a place you would ever want to be. This is no laughing
matter, and you are in extreme danger.

I will pray for you, as well as the others who have commented on my blog site (and in fact, I have already been praying for you), because I really, really, do not want you to go to Hell. There is absolutely nothing in all of existence more horrible than that place. It is called the Second Death, and is basically like an incinerator or an eternally-burning garbage pit. The only way to escape this horrible place is through Christ Jesus the Messiah, Who is God the Son.

Jeff said...

As far as Uzzah touching the Ark, this shows how seriously God takes sin.

"The Ark of the Covenant was an embodiment of God's presence with the Israelites. The atonement cover (or "mercy seat") that covered the ark was God's throne (2 Sam 6:2) and God's presence was above it (Lev 16:2); it was also the place where God met Moses and gave him commands (Ex 25:22). If someone approached the ark, they would effectively be in God's presence - a sinner standing before a holy God who does not tolerate evil (Ps 5:4-6) - and would die as a result of their sins. For this reason, God had given the Israelites many rules concerning the Ark of the Covenant. It was to be kept in the Most Holy Place in the temple, hidden from view by a curtain (Ex 26:33). Only the high priest could enter the Most Holy Place, and then only after he had undergone ceremonial cleansing, made sacrifices to atone for his sins and the nation's sins, and burned incense to conceal the atonement cover (Lev 16). When the ark was moved, it was covered with at least 3 layers of cloth by the priests to protect others from seeing it (Num 4:5-6, 15, 18-20); the priests/Levites carried it and everyone else had to stay about a thousand yards away (Josh 3:4). These laws enforced the concept of God's holiness: sinful people couldn't be in his presence, not even the high priest.

Hence, when Uzzah touched the ark, he was profaning it and disobeying God; he should have grabbed the poles used for carrying the ark instead, for that was their purpose (Ex 25:14-15)......the ark shouldn't have been on a cart anyway, but should have been carried on people's shoulders (1 Chr 15:15).

The Israelites who looked in the ark were actually violating several laws: they came near to the ark (a violation if they weren't Levites), they looked at the ark, they touched the ark and they moved the atonement cover, which was God's symbolic throne. Since God's presence was on/over the ark, they were actually coming into the presence of God - and without the least sense of reverence towards him, since they decided to poke around and play with his throne! Is it any wonder they died?"
http://www.rationalchristianity.net/touch_ark.html

Also see:
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/gutripper.html#ark

Jeff said...

As far as Job:

Job is an interesting book, because it addresses some interesting philosophical questions.

"The numerous exegeses of the Book of Job are classic attempts to reconcile the co-existence of evil and God and address the problem of evil."

"God permits "the Satan" to put the virtue of Job to the test, at first by giving him power over his property, but forbidding him to touch his person. Satan began by taking away all of Job's riches, his livestock, his house, his servants, and his children; a series of four messengers informs him that they have perished in various disasters.

Job rends his clothes, shaves his head, and falls down upon the ground saying, "Naked I came from my mother's womb, And naked shall I return there. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; Blessed be the name of the Lord."

As Job endures these calamities without reproaching Divine Providence, Satan solicits permission to afflict his person as well, and Yahweh says, "Behold he is in your hand, but don’t touch his life." Satan, therefore, smites him with dreadful boils, and Job, seated in ashes, scrapes off the corruption with a pot shard. His wife wants him to "curse God, and die" but Job answers, "Shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?"

"Job's friends do not waver from their belief that God is right, and that anyone who has such poor fortune as Job is necessarily being punished for disobeying God's law. As the poem progresses Job's friends increasingly berate him for refusing to confess his sins, although they themselves are at a loss as to what sort of sins he has committed. The three friends continue to assume that Job was a sinner and therefore deserves all punishments. They also assume, in their view of theology, that God always rewards good and punishes evil, with no apparent exceptions allowed. There seems to be no room in their understanding of God for divine discretion and mystery in allowing and arranging suffering for purposes other than retribution."

"Job, convinced of his own innocence, maintains that his suffering cannot be accounted for by his few sins, and that there is no reason for God to punish him thus. However, he refuses to curse God's name."

"Elihu.....takes a mediator's path, maintaining the sovereignty and righteousness and gracious mercy of God. Elihu strongly condemns the approach taken by the three friends, and argues that Job is misrepresenting God's righteousness and discrediting his loving character."

"Elihu argues for God's power, redemptive salvation and absolute rightness in all his conduct. God is mighty, yet just, and quick to warn and to forgive. Elihu takes a distinct view of the kind of repentance required by Job. Job's three friends claim that repentance requires Job to identify and renounce the sins that gave rise to his suffering. By contrast, Elihu stresses that repentance inextricably entails renouncing any moral authority or cosmological perspective, which is God's alone. Elihu therefore underscores the inherent arrogance in Job's desire to 'make his case' before God, which presupposes that Job possesses a superior moral standard that can be prevailed upon God. Apparently, Elihu acts in a prophetic role preparatory to the appearance of God."

"After several rounds of debate between Job and his friends, in a divine voice, described as coming from a "cloud" or "whirlwind", YHVH [i.e., Yahweh/Jehovah] describes, in evocative and lyrical language, what the experience of being responsible for the world is like, and asks if Job has ever had the experiences that YHVH has had.

YHVH's answer underscores that Job shares the world with numerous powerful and remarkable creatures, creatures with lives and needs of their own, whom God must provide for, and the young of some hunger in a way that can only be satisfied by taking the lives of others. Does Job even have any experience of the world he lives in? Does he understand what it means to be responsible for such a world? Job admits that he does not.

YHVH's speech also emphasizes his sovereignty in creating and maintaining the world. The thrust is not merely that God has experiences that Job does not, but also that God is King over the world and is not necessarily subject to questions from his creatures, including men. He declines to answer any of Job's questions or challenges with anything except "I am the Lord."

In the epilogue, YHVH condemns Job's friends for their insistence on speaking wrongly of the Lord's motives and methods, commands them to make extensive animal sacrifices and instructs Job to pray for their forgiveness. Immediately thereafter YHVH restores Job to health, giving him double the riches he before possessed (including ten new children added to the ten who predeceased him). His new daughters are the most beautiful in the land, and are given inheritance while Job is still alive. Job is crowned with a holy life and with a happy death, to the extent that is possible."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Job