Wednesday, June 4, 2008

Brian Mackert's testimony out of Mormonism into a personal relationship with Jesus Christ

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11 comments:

Dr. Russell Norman Murray said...

Thirty-one children is too many to properly father. This man faced much humanly created religious pressure.

So much is concerned with testimony and feelings with the LDS and FLDS; so much for a priority on reason and evidence.

I do not completely agree with his end talk on how he gave his life to Christ. God can change a person and bring one to belief and repentance without the person giving himself/herself. But, I like this guy, he seems sincere.

June 4, 2008 at 3:50 AM
Jeff said...

Russ,

It sounded to me like what he was saying, was that he had started going to a Christian church, and he believed that Jesus died on the cross. But he had never surrendered his life to Christ.

Even the devil believes in God, in Jesus, that Jesus died on the cross, and that the Bible is true.

I was baptized as an infant by sprinkling as an infant, and I never missed a single Sunday, unless I was sick, while growing up in a Lutheran church. By the time I had finished High School, I had read the Bible from cover to cover, in a few different versions. I believed that God was real; I believed that Jesus died on the cross; I believed in the Trinity; and I believed in the virgin birth.

However, it was not until I was 19 that I accepted Christ as my personal Savior. While attending Miami-Dade Community College South Campus, in a Commercial Art class, a black Pentecostal guy took me outside every day for about a week during class breaks and told me about how Christ had changed his life, and how he was no longer afraid of anyone. I had attended a Lutheran church every Sunday for my entire life, but I had never heard the gospel message. I went home and I asked God to give me what that guy had. Around that same time, I found some Chick tracts, and I read them, and I prayed the salvation prayer at the end of one of them, and asked Jesus to come into my heart and forgive me of all of my sins, and to take over my life. It was at that point that I was born again, and became a new creature in Christ Jesus.

June 4, 2008 at 10:15 PM
Dr. Russell Norman Murray said...

It sounded to me like what he was saying, was that he had started going to a Christian church, and he believed that Jesus died on the cross. But he had never surrendered his life to Christ.

Agreed, Jeff.

Even the devil believes in God, in Jesus, that Jesus died on the cross, and that the Bible is true.

Yes, but not belief, trust and faith in.

I think my point stands. God can change a person and bring one to belief and repentance without the person giving himself/herself. God can bring about the work of conversion is a person and at the same time the person simultaneously accepts Christ. God makes the choice to regenerate a person as opposed to God waiting around for the person to accept him. This being said I do not doubt that God uses human means to change persons, and that this process takes time.

Cheers.:)

June 4, 2008 at 10:46 PM
Dr. Russell Norman Murray said...

God can bring about the work of conversion in a person

June 4, 2008 at 10:47 PM
Jeff said...

I'm not exactly sure what you mean.

Are you saying that
-a person can accept Christ as Savior but not as Lord?
OR
-a person can be regenerated without giving their life to Christ?
OR
-the Holy Spirit can regenerate a person without that person's knowledge?
OR
-something else?

June 5, 2008 at 12:13 AM
Dr. Russell Norman Murray said...

God chooses who he regenerates and in that process a person believes, trusts, accepts. This is classic Reformed doctrine I reason.

The speaker gave the impression that God told him he had to give his life to Christ. I reason God in a sense, akes the person, but it is not force or coercion as in the process of God taking, regenerating, and convincing a person, they freely believe. I would reason that a person is already regenerated and believes before they quote 'give their life to Christ'.

Cheers, Jeff.

June 5, 2008 at 12:55 AM
Dr. Russell Norman Murray said...

Man, blogger is messing up tonight!

The speaker gave the impression that God told him he had to give his life to Christ. I reason God in a sense, takes the person,

Russ:)

June 5, 2008 at 12:57 AM
Dr. Russell Norman Murray said...

Hey, Jeff.

A slight, but not total change of topic:

I just did a 40 minute run/walk session outside.:)

If the following articles are too personal for you to comment on with my blog, I understand. I have wanted to tell you about these articles for awhile. If you do decide to comment can you please put comments in my latest article on thekingpin68 in order that more persons than just you and I and a rare web searcher read them.) In a reply I would repost the original links. Cheers.

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June 5, 2008 at 2:09 AM
Jeff said...

God chooses who he regenerates and in that process a person believes, trusts, accepts. This is classic Reformed doctrine I reason.

As I said in my June 1st comments, I agree with Election, and Paul argues for Election in Romans 9. There are also, as you know, many other verses that teach Election. God is the initiator, and whom He calls will be reborn.

"For God's gifts and his call are irrevocable." (Romans 11:29)

The speaker gave the impression that God told him he had to give his life to Christ. I reason God in a sense, akes the person, but it is not force or coercion as in the process of God taking, regenerating, and convincing a person, they freely believe. I would reason that a person is already regenerated and believes before they quote 'give their life to Christ'.

I believe that salvation is a process. The Holy Spirit has to prepare the heart. Sometimes that process shows itself as a long, difficult struggle. Other times, that process seems to be a sudden, dramatic thing (as with Saul/Paul, whose regeneration process, I think you would agree, is not typical). Though there are certain doctrines that are definitely taught in the Bible, which are true, at the same time, I think we have to be careful not to put God in a box, and try to conform him to our preconceived limitations. Certain things about God always stand true; but there are other things about Him---one being the way He works---that are oftimes a mystery. Circumstantially---outside of the fact that our (i.e., the Elect) names were chosen before the beginning of time---not everyone gets saved in the exact same way.

Jesus said, "The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." (John 3:8)

June 5, 2008 at 7:23 AM
Jeff said...

I just did a 40 minute run/walk session outside.:)

Nice. Good for you! I got up early today, and I'm trying to get a lot done this morning before I go to work. I plan to do some stretching, and maybe exercise a little to one of my exercise videos (probably one of my Tae Bo videos), and maybe also spend a few minutes with the weights.

If the following articles are too personal for you to comment on with my blog, I understand. I have wanted to tell you about these articles for awhile. If you do decide to comment can you please put comments in my latest article on thekingpin68 in order that more persons than just you and I and a rare web searcher read them.) In a reply I would repost the original links. Cheers.

Since I still have to get ready for work, I may not have time this morning. But if I don't post any comments by tonight or tomorrow, please remind me.

June 5, 2008 at 7:27 AM
Dr. Russell Norman Murray said...

Hey, Jeff.

From my MPhil/PhD research I reason human beings have a nature which includes consciousness, desires and motives, that would be influenced by God leading to choices. I think this would be the case in the salvation process as well.

June 5, 2008 at 7:49 PM

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