Thoughts and Theology: Tara's Testimony Out of Mormonism into Christianity

Monday, May 26, 2008

Tara's Testimony Out of Mormonism into Christianity

11 comments:

Dr. Russell Norman Murray said...: That story makes me grin...

She is all over the place with her talk, but I am glad she knows the Lord.

It is good to hear of people delivered from the LDS.; May 26, 2008 at 7:37 AM
Jeff said...: Russ,

Yeah, that was quite obviously an off-the-cuff presentation, and definitely not contrived.

I cracked up when, in response to someone praying for her, "Please forgive her of her many sins," she replied, "MANY?? I have sins, but not MANY! ExCUSE MEE!!"

I found it quite interesting that she said that there were about 20 people that were instrumental in her coming to Jesus. It makes me suspect that God manipulates events and situations in order to cause His elect to surrender to Christ and be saved.; May 26, 2008 at 1:52 PM
Jeff said...: Biblical Christianity teaches that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:11; 44:6,8; 45:5). Although some, like Muslims, erroneously accuse us of believing in 3 Gods, it is only because they don't understand. Biblical Christianity teaches that God is one Being made up of 3 distinct Persons. As human beings, we say, "How can that be? That's impossible!" But we only say that because we are thinking that God is like a human being. Yes, man was created in God's image, but that doesn't mean that God is like man in every way. Obviously, God is not like man in every way. For one thing, man is flesh and bone; God is spirit. (Of course, Mormons believe that God is flesh and bone; but that is not biblical Christianity.)

People think that, because with a human being, 1 person = 1 being, then it must be the same with God. But such is not the case. With that same logic, a fish could say that all creatures have scales and swim. Or a bird could say that all creatures have wings and feathers and fly.

God is far above human beings. God is far above angels, and angels are far more powerful than human beings. Angels are different from human beings (they are a different creation, and were created before human beings were created), so why should it surprise us that God is different from human beings? God is omniscient (all-knowing), omnipotent (all-powerful), and omnipresent (not limited by space or time). The book of Revelation talks about creatures in Heaven that are quite different than any creatures we are familiar with. So again, why should it surprise us that God's 'composition' is different from ours?

I know you already know all of this, Russ, and that you most likely agree with me on all of this. My comment is mostly for others who may read this.; May 26, 2008 at 2:34 PM
Jeff said...: I started to make a comparison between Mormon beliefs and Christian beliefs in my last comment, but I got sidetracked. So, here is a brief comparison:

Beliefs about GOD:

Christianity:
There is only one God (Isaiah 43:11; 44:6,8; 45:5)

LDS Church (i.e., Latter-Day Saints/Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints/Mormons):
"And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3)
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Christianity:
God has always been God (Psalm 90:2; Isaiah 57:15)

LDS Church:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345
--------------------

Christianity:
God is a spirit without flesh and bones (John 4:24; Luke 24:39)

LDS Church:
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's" (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22. Compare with Alma 18:26-27; 22:9-10)

"Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
--------------------

Beliefs about THE TRINITY:

Christianity:
The Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in all the universe and that He exists in three, eternal, simultaneous person: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

LDS Church:
The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35.)
--------------------

Beliefs about JESUS:

Christianity:
Jesus was born of the virgin Mary (Isaiah 7:14; Matt. 1:23)

LDS Church:
"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8: p. 115)

"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Mormon Doctrine," by Bruce McConkie, p. 547)
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Christianity:
Jesus is the eternal Son. He is second person of the Trinity. He has two natures. He is God in flesh and man (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2;9) and the creator of all things (Col. 1:15-17)

LDS Church:
Jesus is the literal spirit-brother of Lucifer, a creation. (Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15)

the above information is from:
http://www.carm.org/lds/compare.htm; May 26, 2008 at 2:46 PM
Jeff said...: (continued)

Beliefs about THE HOLY SPIRIT:

Christianity:
The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. He is not a force. He is a person. (Acts 5:3-4; 13:2)

LDS Church:
Mormonism distinguishes between the Holy Spirit (God's presence via an essence) and the Holy Ghost (the third god in the Mormon doctrine of the trinity).

"He [the Holy Ghost] is a being endowed with the attributes and powers of Deity, and not a mere force, or essence (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 144)
--------------------

Beliefs about SALVATION:

Christianity:
Salvation is the forgiveness of sin and deliverance of the sinner from damnation. It is a free gift received by God's grace (Eph. 2:8; Rom. 6:23) and cannot be earned (Rom. 11:6).

LDS Church:
Salvation has a double meaning in Mormonism: universal resurrection and . . .
"The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79.
--------------------

Christianity:
Salvation (forgiveness of sins) is not by works (Eph. 2:8; Rom. 4:5; Gal. 2:21)

LDS Church:
"As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements -- 'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.'" (Articles of Faith p. 79)
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Beliefs about THE BIBLE:

Christianity:
The inspired inerrant word of God (2 Tim. 3:16). It is authoritative in all subjects it addresses.

LDS Church:
"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. . ." 8th Article of Faith of the Mormon Church.

This is only a sample of many of the differences between Christianity and Mormonism.

God cannot be uncreated and created at the same time. There cannot be only one God and many gods at the same time. The Trinity cannot be one God in three persons and three gods in an office known as the Trinity, etc. These teachings are mutually exclusive.

Paul talks about this in Gal. 4:8, "when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods." Only the God of the Bible exists. There are no others.

the above information is from:
http://www.carm.org/lds/compare.htm; May 26, 2008 at 2:53 PM
Dr. Russell Norman Murray said...: Hey, in D Wead the blog, in my links, with the latest article on Ron Paul, D Black rips into evangelical Christians as basically being blind followers.

Check it out, if you wish...; May 26, 2008 at 10:52 PM
Jeff said...: Russ,

I've read some of the comments so far, but there are many of them, mostly between "D Black" and a lady, and one of the comments looks long enough to fill an encyclopedia. It seems they are having a very long, ongoing argument between the two of them.; May 31, 2008 at 3:32 PM
Jeff said...: Russ,

I just went back and read some more of those comment's on Doug Wead's site, between "Black David" and that woman. It seems to me that there is a lot of bitter anger and hatred going back and forth between the two of them, and a lot of mud-slinging. Such conversations (if you can even call them that) are anti-productive, IMO. I understand that with such blogs as yours, mine and Doug Wead's, which have to do with religious or political subjects, there can be very strong differences of opinion. But long, ongoing arguments that merely rant endlessly about the same thing, over and over, are a waste of time, and only end in bad feelings. I have been involved in debates like that online, and I have found that they are useless in the end, so I'm trying not to fall into that trap...although its not always possible to completely avoid, especially when I post on subjects such as Creation vs. Evolution, which almost always evoke very strong feelings between people. I'm finding out, more and more, that, whether Christian or non-Christian, none of us will completely agree on every subject. Until we get to Heaven, our knowledge is limited, and we will have differing opinions about something or other. And, when any two people on this earth spend enough time with each other, eventually, there is going to be some sort of conflict, or something with which they will disagree. I think this is due to a combination of our sinful nature (i.e., which includes pride and selfishness), and our lack of perfect knowledge.; May 31, 2008 at 3:46 PM
Derek said...: I'm a Mormon. I try my best to live a Christlike life... Doesn't that make me a Christian? If not I don't care, I'll just keep loving my neighbor the best I can.; March 25, 2011 at 1:10 AM
Jeff said...: The Mormon Church uses Christian terms, but has radically changed the meanings of those terms. When Mormons say they believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, they are really saying they believe in a god from another planet, with a goddess wife, who literally is the father of Jesus, and that there is a spirit being, the Holy Ghost, who is another god.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or Mormon church, teaches that God the Father used to be a man on another planet, that he became a god by following the laws and ordinances of that god on that planet and came to this world with his wife (who became a goddess), and that they produced spirit offspring in heaven. These spirit offspring (including Jesus, the devil, and us) are all brothers and sisters born in the preexistence. These preexisting spirits come down and inhabit babies at the time of birth, and the memories of their preexistence are lost. In addition, faithful Mormons, who pay a full 10% tithe of their income to the Mormon church through Mormon temples, have the potential of becoming gods of their own planets.

Jesus warned us about such groups when he said in Matthew 24:24 that in the last days many false prophets will arise and deceive many. Mormonism is exactly that---a manifestation of a false prophet, Joseph Smith, who taught these things.; March 27, 2011 at 8:46 PM
Jeff said...: Derek,

To answer you more directly, 'trying your best to live a Christlike life' doesn't cut it. Isaiah 64:6 says that our very best "good works" are nothing more than filthy rags (the original language says a woman's menstruating rags) to a holy God.

Yet, Jesus said, "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:48) If you are absolutely perfect, then you are good enough to get to Heaven. If you are not perfect, then you won't make it.

The problem is, the Bible says, "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8) Therefore, we are not perfect, so we are not good enough to get to Heaven.

However, God provided a way, and that way involves, first, repenting of your sins, and surrendering your entire life to Christ Jesus. If a person does that, they will receive a brand new nature inside, becoming a brand new creation, and will have God the Holy Spirit come and live inside of them. Another part of it is that God then marks that person's sin debt as 'PAID,' because Jesus paid for it at the cross when He absorbed the full wrath of God the Father. Jesus, who lived a life of perfect sinlessness, became sin for us on that cross. Therefore, when God looks at the regenerated Christian, He sees a perfect, righteous, holy saint.; March 27, 2011 at 9:15 PM

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